Блогчетање

Данилово блогче

Fri, 03 Dec 2004

Just like many others around Serbia, I've gotten my collection of Ubuntu CD sets one of the last days.


Now, why isn't their carrier using Gnome to print out address labels?
Wonder what would happen if I actually used Cyrillic? :).

First impressions are not perfect, but it's probably due to my specific localization interests: Ubuntu uses old broken URW-CYR fonts (Debian was supposed to be fixed some time ago, but it's all fixed upstream), they ship old incorrect sr_YU locales (which have been removed from GNU libc CVS; improved locales sr_CS are available in libc bugzilla), and they don't ship DejaVu or Computer Modern Unicode fonts (I use these for my everyday desktop needs, since they have good coverage of WGL4).

Also, some parts of their modified interface are not translated to Serbian, but I hope someone else (I'm thinking of Urke :) will actually get on with Ubuntu Serbian localization, since he's already using it, and he's a member of Serbian localization team.

Next, choosing OpenOffice.org over Gnumeric/Abiword combo has its' advantages, but it's certainly not localization: OpenOffice.org requires a recompile (of at least some libraries) to suit a different locale. The similar holds for Firefox over Epiphany (uhm, anyone knows why did they go this route?). There're translations to Serbian for both of these (at least partial in case of OO.o) around web, but they're not integrated because of these "localization as an after-thought" designs.

Ok, this was mostly regarding Ubuntu localization stuff, I'll get to trying other stuff (plugging in digital camera and scanner I have lying around, seeing if the sound works, setting up my ISDN and network connection, etc.) one of these days.

[16:07] | [] | # | G | | TB
Sorry about the label. I know it sucks.

The encoding issues with our CD database have improved and we a new patch to fix it (although it may not always be great for data that we already have). That said, our shipping company (which does not use Ubuntu and probably not even GNU/Linux) cannot support any non-ASCII characters (and there are other similar restrictions). If this were the major criteria in choosing places to ship to, we'd be screwed. This will always be a bit nasty. We also started collecting data for the CDs before we had chosen a company to ship or knew the restrictions.

In terms of localization stuff, I'm happy to work with you to file bugs and to chase up on these things. Let me know: mako@canonical.com

-- Benjamin Mako Hill
— Posted by mako at Fri Dec 3 19:00:23 2004
Firefox does not need recompilation to be localized. Just install one of the XPIs from here:

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/1.0/linux-i686/xpi/

and then run:

firefox -UILocale <language code> -contentLocale <country code>

e.g.:

firefox -UILocale pt-BR -contentLocale BR

for Brazilian Portuguese.
— Posted by marcoos at Sun Dec 5 08:09:25 2004
Marcoos, you're not the first one to point that out: my wording was probably not very good.

I know that Firefox doesn't require recompilation, my point was on "OOo vs Gnumeric/Abiword" and "Firefox vs Epiphany" when I said "similar": it's similar in that no one will ship Firefox or OOo translated to as many languages as they are.

Simply, GNOME apps are better at localisation (they're not perfect).
— Posted by Данило at Sun Dec 5 14:02:41 2004
Are they better?

I have not seen many GNOME apps that can change languages on the fly, nor offer the user to select the default locale for running it.

Granted, Mozilla things are messy to translate by hand, but luckily there is http://translate.sf.net that converts between Mozilla and .po formats. It also handles some other strange l10n file formats (strange being same as: not (n)gettext).

One bug however is that it does not support UTF-8 shortcut keys, at least it did not until a few days ago when I last looked at it. But, it's python and the only changes needed are to construct the UTF-8 strings instead of plain ones.

I just did not have the time to hunt these places down.

f
— Posted by filmil at Thu Dec 9 00:23:04 2004
Filip, what applications do allow changing language on the fly? If you've got to use different shared libraries (as in OOo), you certainly must reload the app itself as well.

I don't know about Firefox, but I suspect you got to restart it as well.  I know it's true for installing a locale at least.

Adding an option for default locale-per-app is something that's unnecessary: you can create eg. "gnumeric" bash script which will do simply "LC_ALL=blah_BLAH LANG=blah gnumeric-bin $*", and move "gnumeric" binary to "gnumeric-bin". Nobody bothers with this because (almost) nobody needs it and it's really trivial to do if one insists, and if you want, you may also create a GConf key and read and write it with gconftool-2 from within such Bash script as well.


One can create GNOME applications which would support changing a locale on the fly, but programmers usually optimise by assuming that that won't happen (i.e. you can do char *bla = g_strdup(gettext("This message")); once in your program, instead of doing it whenever you're displaying the message).

Now, if programmers didn't optimise this way, you'd be able to even install a locale on the fly and use that (you can already write a wrapper library around gettext() to check for changes to some GConf key "/desktop/currentlanguage", and load it using LD_PRELOAD mechanism, but few really need that).

Some Gnome applications would really benefit from this once "Language and Culture" capplet hits the shelves (most notably gnome-session, gnome-panel, nautilus, gnome-applets, since they're loaded on startup; yet, all of them can be simply reloaded for changes to take effect [SIGHUP], except for gnome-session which might end your X session). But technically, if there're not too many optimisations as above, you can already make it mostly (there're many areas where it will fail) work without touching Gnome code itself.

But, it's going to be slower, and nobody likes slower!
— Posted by Данило at Thu Dec 9 16:29:48 2004

Name:


E-mail:


URL:


Comment:


Contact
Danilo Segan

This is blog (web log) of Danilo Šegan (or Данило Шеган).

Archives
2013-Dec
2011-Nov
2011-Oct
2011-Aug
2011-Jul
2011-Jun
2011-May
2010-Oct
2010-Aug
2010-Jul
2010-Apr
2010-Mar
2010-Feb
2010-Jan
2009-Dec
2009-Oct
2009-Aug
2009-Jun
2008-Oct
2008-Aug
2008-Jul
2008-Jun
2008-May
2008-Apr
2008-Mar
2008-Feb
2007-Dec
2007-Oct
2007-Aug
2007-Jul
2007-May
2007-Apr
2007-Feb
2007-Jan
2006-Nov
2006-Oct
2006-Aug
2006-Jul
2006-Apr
2006-Mar
2006-Feb
2006-Jan
2005-Sep
2005-Jun
2005-May
2005-Apr
2005-Mar
2005-Feb
2004-Dec
2004-Nov
2004-Oct
2004-Sep
2004-Aug
2004-Jul
2004-May
2004-Apr
2004-Mar
2004-Feb
2004-Jan
2003-Dec
2003-Nov
2003-Oct
2003-Sep
1983-Mar

< December 2004 >
MoTuWeThFrSaSu
   1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
2728293031  
Categories

Links
Kvota.net
Prevod.org
My study page
Srpski.org
GNOME
Friends' Blogs
alex (en)
bc (en)
Bojan Živanović (sr)
Carlos (en)
Goran (sr)
imp (sr)
lilit (sr)
Oskuro (en)
Zombie (sr/en)
Feeds
RSS